Marion has been coming to the Oakland needle exchange run by HEPPAC for a handful of years now. She has been supporting her heroin habit through prostitution for almost twenty years.

Q: When did you start coming to the exchange?

Oh, I’ve been coming to the exchange about, oh, five, six years.

Q: How did you learn about it?

I learned about it because it’s in our neighborhood and we’ve all been friends.

Q: When did you get involved with drugs?

Oh my goodness. When I was about maybe 27, 28.

Q: Are you from Oakland? Was that in town?

Yes, I am from Oakland.

Q: So that is a little older than a lot of people, why did you start?

Yeah, yeah I was. Oh. Oh my goodness. It’s, well, to be honest, I was a very spoiled child. You know, very protected by my dad. When I lost my dad I thought I lost everything and I didn’t have anybody. Me and my mother, we really didn’t get along at all. My dad had committed suicide and I found him you know. I had my cousin who my daddy had always warned me about… “She’s no good…” But she was my cousin. I started chipping and then I started doing more because it made me feel good… It took me away from all of my hurt, mostly. So that’s how I got started.

She had been using for quite a few years already.

Q: Did you start with heroin?

Heroin. I never smoked, drinked, or anything. I did nothing. I stayed home with my baby and… it… didn’t happen.

Q: And then your cousin got you on-

She didn’t get me on! I did!.. I did it. Because I seen how it made her feel… and… I wanted to feel that way. Wow- “She’s not hurting. She’s numb, she doesn’t feel anything.” I want to feel numb. I don’t want to feel anything either! She had a lot of problems in her life also, probably that’s how she got introduced to it all…

Q: Are you still in touch with her?

Yeah. Yeah.

Q: And she’s still using as well?

No. She straightened up lately and… moved to Modesto. She’s trying to get her life back together. She’s got her brothers and sisters behind her. We’re stubborn. Once we- it’s very easy to get in it, but it’s very VERY hard to get out. People support you, but it’s like… it’s just so hard… to leave it, you know? To me, it’s not really the drug that you’re addicted to, but the routine that you are so used to- that it’s hard to leave. And if you’re a hooker like I am, it’s the money that’s hard to leave. It’s the fast life. You’re used to the money coming. When you try to straighten up and stuff, you kind of… miss it. It kind of like nags you until you… finally slip and come out and then you slip and you’re all over again- back into the same routine, you know? Really not back to the drugs. I don’t know, that’s my opinion. Not back to the drugs, you’re back to the routine, that you are so used to- that you miss. You know?

Q: Have you been in treatment programs?

I’ve never been in treatment. Never.

Q: When you’ve tried to stop on your own, how does that go? Do you try to stop cold turkey?

No… ahaa. I go to the jail. That’s how I stop. But when I get out- I usually stay clean for a few months or whatever and then… something happens to trigger me off and I, I get right back there. Or I get mixed up with a guy and there I am again, you know.

Q: So how many times have you been in jail?

Oh my God. I’ve been going to jail since… the 80’s, I guess. Yeah.

Q: For drug charges or-

Prostitution. Prostitution. Or my drugs ahaa you know…

Q: What happens? Does an undercover cop come by or something?

Yeah. An undercover cop. Like, if you are on probation for it already, you’ll get a violation. It all depends how many days you’re up to. If it’s your first violation, they’ll probably give you 30 days, you do 20. But if it’s your second or third, you could get up to 60 to six months. But I’ve never done that much time. I think the most I ever done is 90 days- get 90, do 60. So, yeah.

Q: So are you picked up a couple of times a year?

Umm. Yeahh. Usually during election time I go all the time.

Q: Why do you think it’s during election time?

Not why do I think- it is. That’s when they get… “Okay, it’s time to clean up the streets,” you know. It’s election time. They’re trying to score points. “Let’s get the hookers off.” That’s when they send out the cavalry to us.

Q: How many times have you been offered a treatment program instead of jail time?

Never. I’ve never, never- they’ve never offered me. They just come at me with 90 days or whatever. And then when I get in there, I am so dopesick and I know I am going to do time, it’s like, “Just give me my time and let me lie down.” You just want to get in bed you know and start your kicking, you know. You’re not thinking about a drug program or anything. It’s something that they need to offer instead of jail time. Some of us, we might make it sometime you know? Taking us to jail isn’t really doing anything except clearing our bodies, resting our bodies up for another run because as soon as we leave them doors, boom- we are rushing to the dope man.

We’re in jail saying, “I am going to do this or do that….” But all of us run to the dope man first.

Q: Would you be interested in going into a treatment program or do you feel like you have to do it on your own?

No. No. This is what I need you know. You see, I have a lot of problems here [motions to her head]. In my head. Me myself, I think I can get out of this if I just had somebody to… talk to, but not somebody to sit there and- just because it’s their job. I need somebody that’s gonna ask me questions, that’s gonna talk to me, that’s gonna you know…. gonna make me want to bring it out and tell it. I need somebody to find out what my problem really is that I have buried in here that I don’t know. That apparently I need to get out…but I don’t, I don’t know what it is. You know… I know myself… That’s what it is. I need, I need to talk. I need to get it out and maybe I’ll be, maybe I can get on with my life or something, you know. Because I… I have a problem. I know it… I don’t know how to get out of it, it’s just, taking a first step. But when you take a first step you need somebody there behind you in case you walk and get ready to fall, you know. Or somebody to pat you- “Ok, we did it today, let’s do it…” Or somebody, you can just pick up the phone and say, I need to talk to you.

This is what’s wrong with a lot of us, you know. We have stuff that is built up in us. We have nobody to turn to, to talk to. We don’t need NA meetings that say, ok… I know it’s hard, and there’s probably no way possible there could ever be a one on one session, but maybe in some of these group homes, maybe they could have one day a week or something like that you know, or just have somebody there that’s available 24 hours. That they can get, that you can go to or call. Who can get all of this stuff out of us that needs to be out. We have a lot of hurt built up in us. If some of it came out, I think a lot of us would be the person we used to be. A lot of us are very good people, you know. We have people that love us and that are hurting worser than we are, you know? Because we are killing them more than we are killing ourselves.

[ Marion becomes increasingly distraught]

I’m sorry.

See this is what I’m speaking about- about talking. Like right now, I’m getting a little bit out… you know…

Q: What do you think is up in your head? Is this about your father?

I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s part my dad you see, I’ve always been used to my daddy, right. And my mom- I love my mother and she loves me because I’m her daughter right? But it’s like, I’m really, really alone because I can’t go to my mom like a mother- like a mommy. She’s a mother but not a mommy. I don’t know if it makes sense to you, but… you know… a mommy is somebody you can go and cry to, who’s going to hold you tight…A mother’s just, “ok… you know… We’ll talk later… I’ve heard that before… How many times have you told me?... How many times have you promised me….” It could be a thousand and one, but each time I come to you, just… say… “Don’t ever give up…” That’s a mommy…

[ Marion continues to sob while going on]

We have problems and… we cry out, but we break so many promises, that you can’t believe us… It’s just… we don’t know any other way right now. I know it’s hard to keep listening and see us… break our promises… They think it’s easy and it’s not. It’s not easy. It’s very, very hard. They don’t understand it’s very, very hard to come to them to try to talk to them because we know what they are going to say. All we want is just a hug and… not just to be, “Yeah, ok…”

Q: If it’s not intentional, why are you breaking so many promises.

The drugs. It’s the drugs. I guess it boils back down to needing somebody, needing somebody. I think a lot of us need somebody. We’re very lonely out here. We’re always in a crowd, yeah, but we’re always alone. We’re always alone.

Q: Do any of the johns get picked up by the police? Or do they just focus on the women?

No, they have their day where they’ll arrest “the johns,” like you say. Yeah.

Q: Why do you think you went into this line of work instead of something to get money?

I knew no other way. I had no experience. I told you, I was spoiled. I didn’t have to do anything. I was 16 and my baby’s daddy… My dad passed away and I had my baby’s daddy. I didn’t have to do anything because he worked and stuff.

I was 17 when I had my baby.

Q: How old were you when your dad died?

Oh goodness… I was, I was 17 because my baby was just two weeks old. October 13 th, two weeks after that, my dad passed away.

Q: Are you still in touch with your baby’s daddy?

Oh yeah. Yeah. My babies are 23 years old now. I have three. And this is another thing. I have three, my oldest boy, my younger daughter, and then my youngest died in a drive by. I have a lot of hurt. My dad passed away, then they killed my baby, and then they killed my husband right in front of me. Not my husband, but my fiancée. Another drive by. Three black guys pulled right up in a car and just shot my man at the bus stop. They pulled out a gun and just shot him.

Q: Did they know him or was it random?

They didn’t know him. My fiancée, he wasn’t in this life. He was a printer and lived in Alameda. I actually met him as a date and I fell in love with him and he fell in love with me. I was doing good again. I wasn’t working the streets. I had kicked. I had never gone cold turkey for anyone and I did for him. I was doing good… And then this happened… And there I was again… This time I tried to kill myself. I didn’t think it was fair. I didn’t think it was fair… That’s why I say I need a lot of, a lot of talking. I have a lot of stuff to come out. Maybe I could get a little bit better with my head a little bit straight.

Q: Have you talked to the folks here? Do you think there is someone they could find for you?

I bet you they could. They could find someone. They are good people. They help you out and stuff. But I’ve never talked to them about it… Yeah, they- yeah, I just never thought about it.

Q: Maybe there is some sort of program in Oakland nearby that could even see you.

I don’t know of one. But I could ask after the interview. I am going to ask. Because, I mean, I don’t know. Once again, it’s just what a lot of us need. A lot of us have stuff locked up in us that really needs to come out. If we could just get some of that out- it would be like, ahaaaaa. It would be like, so that’s what’s the matter with me. All this time it was so simple. Maybe we could just figure out our problem. I know it’s the drugs, but it’s really not the drugs. Every one of us has something that needs to come out, but then again, that’s my opinion.

Q: Do they other women you work with, do most of them use drugs?

Everybody does around here. Everybody.