E: By the time the movement got started, I was on my way out of high school really, almost out of high school. But I have been fighting and… struggling so long… for justice. Just for justice.

C: Why are we fighting in Iraq for our freedom?

E: We fought for civil rights, the farm workers, women’s rights. Now here we are,

C: …economic justice… still fighting.

E: Still fighting for economic justice. And since 1992 we have been trying to get mandatory minimums looked at. And finally, finally, they are getting the word. They are understanding it’s not justice. And you know why? I believe some white men are finally getting locked up. That is it.

C: You used to go to prisons and there wasn’t anything there but black men, but now you go to prison and there’s all kind of folk there. And there’s white men, not just white men from the trailer park, right, but CEO’s in there.

Q: I thought it was becoming more skewed toward people of color.

E: It is still skewed that way, but now they see they are starting to affect some of their own people. More and more of the congressmen’s family members are getting caught up in the War on Drugs. You don’t hear about it- it’s not on the six o’clock news- unlike if my son went out and got busted… There are a lot of people in the government who have family members who are being affected.

C: That’s why every time somebody tells me about the president over there, talking about freedom, but over in Iraq- talking about freedom, all he talks about is terror.

E: The thing about is, we have always known terror in the black community. And here you have Rush Limbaugh, look at how he is affected by the Drug War. If it wasn’t for who he is… If my son did what Rush Limbaugh did, he would not be sitting here today.

Rich people don’t get the death penalty.

Three hundred and sixty months. “I knew my fate had been decided the day I walked in this courtroom.” That’s what Jeff said to the judge when asked if he would like to say anything. Jeff was living in DC… associating with- to be honest, he was not innocent. But even though he was doing what he was doing, the punishment did not fit the crime. He was given a 30 year sentence.

He was found not guilty of conspiracy, but sentenced under crack conspiracy.

He was a high school graduate. “Beanie.” He graduated high school cum laude and that afternoon

Twenty-five years and in prison that night.

He got a heightened sentence because he had a rusty old gun in the closet.

In 1986 they took away judges’ discretion. The judge can no longer consider mitigating circumstances. When Jeff was put on trial, the extent of the pre-sentencing report- a government official called me and asked if I was his mother, if he graduated from high school, and how many siblings he had. They didn’t ask for any teachers, ministers, even try to determine the level of culpability.

“I got your black ass.” That’s what the white female prosecutor said to him. He was tried in Baltimore . He actually had a good public defender.

I think corporate America is behind the War on Drugs. We’ve got treatment centers that aren’t worth the building they’re sitting in- like a revolving door. People need a residential place.

Black folk forgive. Christ paid for all of us- none of us are perfect. That’s why we believe in forgiveness.

You know I heard one of President Clinton’s biggest regrets was not reforming the criminal justice system.

C: Even being white in the trailer park, even being white in the shelter, even being white in the prison is different.

E: Do you know how we have seen the effects of mandatory minimums? The breakdown of communities and economic failure.

We always talk about the black men going to jail, but never the good ones staying at home, like my son Jonathan.

Jeffrey was sentenced in 1990. His release date is 2009- he has to serve at least 85% of the 21 years.

C: A lot of times, you got to the prison to visit, to see them, and you are treated like dirt. We barely have the money to go visit anyway.

E: December 9 th, 1990 he was locked up. Lauren’s 1 st birthday was December 18 th. Now she’s 15 and living in Baltimore . It is starting to have negative effects on Lauren. But she is surrounded by a lot of love. Lauren’s mom is a very good mother. She makes sure he remains involved. She has a masters, works for probation and parole for the state of Maryland .

E: I’ve always found a way to visit at least two or three times a year. It is an extreme hardship.

By the time he gets out I want to have a business established so he won’t have to go looking for a job. He was working and going to DC University when he was first arrested.

It was his first criminal offense. Non-violent.

Jeff was 25 at his arrest and sentenced when he was 26 years old.

Even though Jeff has been incarcerated, his philosophy is that they may have his body, but they can’t have his mind. He’s never turned bitter. He is an eternal optimist, and an avid reader.

C: You can’t be bitter toward the system. Because that’s their job, to lock you up. We take issue with the length of the sentence.

E: One time an officer at Fort Dixx called me to say that Jeff was one of the best inmates that he had ever had. That he had a great personality. He wouldn’t even tell me his name because he wasn’t supposed to call.

They used to have the CAPE Program but it was eliminated from Butner; one of Jesse Helms’ going away presents. It was for alternative education. Jeff could have gotten a university degree through Shaw University in Raleigh .

They were arrested for attempting to traffic cocaine, but the judge changed the charge to attempting to traffic crack. “Because you are black, you are more likely to convert it to crack.” That’s what the judge said.

Q: Wait, the judge said that in court?

E: Yes.